Translation is a huge part of this text, as is integrating local language and phrases into the dialogue. Many native languages have been lost or are nearly lost due to colonialisation. I wonder what you think the line is between preservation and translation?
I'm not a linguist, I'm a fiction writer, I'm a poet. So, I think I naively kind of went into this exercise. For example, the section translated into many local languages in Sabah, I [went into it] naively and with the best intentions, but not realising what a complex endeavour it is. But I would say, in this book, that translation is tantamount to some small form of preservation because it's a recording, and it's now there. People have to contend with it, whether they're Australian, English, in Kuala Lumpur, or Sabahan.
I found, when I launched the book in Kota Kinabalu, that a lot of the people in my community were just so excited by that section, because it's something that plays [in] a lot of people's minds - that these languages and a lot of the wisdom that goes with it are disappearing. I had actually just, in light of all this, [had] a quite interesting conversation the other day with Dr Caroline Hughes, who's a Ngunnawal elder from where I grew up in the Queanbeyan Canberra region. She's been at the forefront of trying to revive the Ngunnawal language, and she said,
“We don't talk about dying or dead languages. We talk about sleeping languages”
And so that effort has to be put in. And it can be incredibly enlightening, but it can also be a difficult endeavour. But I like that idea, that you're sort of just reawakening something that's maybe lying dormant or sleeping.
So, in light of Borneo, talking about hegemonic languages like English or the Malay language, and as they get bigger and bigger, the fear is that some of these smaller languages might disappear. So, I was just trying to play my own very small part in recordings. Also, Malaysian Borneo is a place where people often try to identify differences between ethnic groups and delineate boundaries. I know that's common, and it's not only in Malaysia where that happens, but I noticed it a lot there. So I think what I was trying to do, through the motif of the wood, and ‘The Song of the Wood’, and the voice of the wood, was [to] find this commonality, and a common material, that is shared by all of the different ethnic groups in Borneo, whether it's people of the coastline, of the interior, of the mountains, and so that these translations, and ‘The Song of the Wood’, was in some ways, [celebrating] the difference, because it shows the different sort of variations of language, but it's also to show the commonality, and something that unites all these disparate groups.
Adding to that, in the text I noticed this stylistic choice of altering how quotes are presented on the page, going against typical conventions, and I was wondering why this decision was made?
It's probably a product of my overthinking. It's really cool that you picked up on it, actually, because I was fairly convinced that no one would pick up on that. You know what it was? It’s that it's very hard in a book like this to get characters who are related to each other, and grow up in the same community, to have voices that are different enough from each other. And so I was trying to stylistically reflect the characters' differences. Rozanna is a bit of a rebel; she's a free spirit. She often has these kinds of stream-of-consciousness thoughts. I adopted the dialogue style of someone like James Joyce, who uses a lot of stream-of-consciousness. The long em-dashes, I believe, kind of guide the eye through that arrangement of words. Whereas I wanted Harun, as someone who's a bit more precise and business-minded, to use short, sharp, declarative sentences and more common quotation marks. I hoped that in doing so, it would maybe, subconsciously, delineate the voices for a reader. I actually thought no one would really pick up on this. I'm really stoked that you have. But I thought that, at the very least, on a subconscious level, a regular would know that they were in a different type of passage.
Yeah, I definitely felt that. With the murrina, the Borneo ironwood, and even the palm oil, we see a consistent theme in our world of possessions belonging to natives being taken away by colonisers. And I'm wondering what your opinion is on when precious materials being returned isn't an option, what reclamation looks like?
I can only speak from the point of view of being a storyteller, you know, and a poet. And
I think that reclaiming our stories, and the way we write our stories, is a way of reclaiming some of that narrative, selfhood, dignity and identity
So, for example, I sort of prestigiously write back to Joseph Conrad, who was a brilliant writer but wrote in certain ways that, I would say, backgrounded the local characters. Or, for example, used nature and its wildness as a metaphor for the dark side of man. Whereas, say in a place like Borneo, the forest is an abundant, generous place that is also the repository of a lot of wisdom and stories. I think part of the reason I actually wrote the book was reclaiming a story like this, because when I go into the bookshops in Kota Kinabalu, I'll see a lot of books about natural history, about World War II, and all those things are fascinating, but I don't find any fiction. So I wanted to sort of plant my own little flag in the literary landscape. And I realised that when Borneo was depicted, it was so often depicted by outsiders, like Joseph Conrad.
Having said that, I also have to be aware of my own identity and where I sit in that whole matrix, because I was born and raised in Australia. My bloodline and heritage are deeply intertwined with Borneo and its different groups, like my grandmother's ethnic group, the Kedayan, and my father still lives there. All my family lives there, besides my mother, but I am Aussie, you know? I also have to be aware and not pretend like I've got some special lens on the place. I'm only a small fragment in a much bigger mosaic, hopefully. Also, having lived an extremely privileged life. I was born into an educated family. I went to a private school. I am university educated, you know? But, like some of the characters, I've questioned a lot during my life about what to do with that privilege.
I've come to the point of view that you can either use that privilege to uphold the status quo or to challenge it.
And I'd like to think that in my own small way, what i'm doing with my privilege and with this book is to reclaim stories, challenge essentialising narratives, and also open the door for others. Hopefully, there are a lot of storytellers who grew up in Sabah and Sarawak who can now tell their stories, because hopefully I've opened the door a tiny little bit.
We see Roz doing a joint exhibition about her culture, yet her culture seems to be interpreted through white privilege. And I was wondering what you think are effective strategies for resisting the art space's continued domination by a Western canon while maintaining an inclusive image?
That's an interesting question. Resistant strategies. I think I can give you what I think is hopefully a good example, because I've seen it in practice. It's about creating safe spaces for dangerous ideas and places where people feel welcome and safe to express themselves. The best example I can think of is the Bankstown Poetry Slam in Western Sydney. I don't know if you've ever been there.